Fibromyalgia Pain & 'Situational Narcissism'

Whist I can see what they’re getting at, I think it’s grossly unfair to suggest that our unavoidable focus on our pain makes us in any way narcissist – I mean, over and above the fact that every human has some such tendencies.

Oft times, we get ourselves into additional pain, simply because we don’t put our own needs first.

I have a close relative who is a Narcissist proper and I see distinct differences in the two behaviours.

Whilst I will agree that I do not have the physical or mental energy always to be able to help others, at least mentally I remain empathetic – as you clearly do too Adrienne, or you wouldn’t maintain this site to help us.

A true Narcissist might be capable of helping others, but they make up reasons for justifying why they won’t and why their mere wants are more important that anyone else’s genuine, even medical, needs.

ty Pamela!
I think this man has truly insulted us again and most of what he says is unfair and offensive. yes, we focus on pain but we also cry for who we cant help/visit/call etc. due to our illness. well, I DO, at least, and i feel guilty. ur so right, if anything i kill myself, make myself worse for others. i dont take good enuf care of me a lot of times, as a sacrifice for some type of socialization. i hate articles like he wrote. if hes that way, so be it, but dont put it off on us all. thats my 2 cents…….

I for one very much liked the concept of situational narcissism. When you are overwhelmed by pain (or a degree of fatigue that mutes your ability to acknowledge others socially, ask about their lives, etc., and if your mind is often only able to find the ability to concentrate for “fun” things because one’s mind is so poorly able to focus through the fog otherwise, or you just can’t remember or add to memory life details of your friends/contacts), you do effectively become a narcissist–on the outside only of course, which is what I think the author of the article was saying. I’m sure even the author of the article must have felt some empathy for others during his pain, but meant he was limited in the degree he was able to manifest it–which is certainly true for me.

I think even with healthy people, there are degrees; all things being equal, if you exercise well, you are able to express enthusiasm better than someone who is in the same position and not fit. It doesn’t mean they are better because they are fit, or that a person who is not fit or not able to be fit is not giving more relative effort inside, but the point is that being in such a condition will give one a capacity to be more non-self-focused, and where possible, that is a good thing to aim for.

On the other hand, I wouldn’t personally think that any kind of psychotherapy or group relations would usually help, since the real issue is the “situation” of fatigue/pain that is still present (though maybe the author meant more those others who were getting over the pain and whose social skills were rusty as a result–I sure wish I could have that problem!). If anything, I agree such a focus could mislead people into thinking, it is somehow like our inner narcissist told us to get fatigued/in pain as a narcissistic escape. Obviously, that is definitely the opposite of what is going on and the opposite impression of what we need to convey.

One exception to a lack of need for such proposed therapy might be facilitating our being with other “situational narcissists” where one’s social skills don’t matter and one can relax into either complaining or talking about oneself–though that might get pretty tiring if fatigue is the problem and some of the narcissists are expecting you to pay attention to them.

The other exception I see is simply that it is a useful focus for medical professionals to share with _others_ that we may be left in a condition which makes us seem narcissistic. I really think doctors should advise, with a patient’s permission, the family members to come in and see the doctor, like relationship counselors might do. (I’ve personally been fortunate with my family’s understanding, though I do have some acquaintances I wish I could have brought in.) There’s nothing like a disinterested (and professional) party explaining something.

It’d be nice if we could project our emotions and amplify them onto robots or cyborg-like control of our facial muscles or something which could in turn generate positive and normal reactions from others who see what we really mean to express. We’d all of course strongly prefer a cure, but I’m not completely joking in suggesting this. Imagine if, although being exhausted (or in pain), one didn’t emotionally look like it… Although that might cause other trouble in people being even less certain we had anything wrong with us (since fatigue is not easy to see as it is, even though it does manifest subtly which is why I make the suggestion), I think it’d still be very much worth it.

I don’t see any insight here and I don’t like the direction of the ideas. Pain may be overwhelming and limit one’s functioning, but for me it has given me new empathy with and sensitivity to the misery of others–much more so than when I was healthy. Unfortunately, it also makes it more difficult to relate to the joy of life when one is miserable. Obviously, chronic pain can inhibit relationships, but not because of lack of interest in other people. And there are real dangers when one suggests that the chronic pain patient is in need of psychotherapy.

this strikes a chord in me. i know i’m accused of it by my family and truth be told i am listening to my body most of the time. trying to forstall the hurt and exhaustion that’s just around the bend. questioning whether i need more meds, or just some time in bed, alone. all relationships take energy, something most of us are short of. being in chronic pain does isolate. a neighbor thought i was angry and my daughter had to explain that i just don’t feel well most of the time. not angry, just not happy.

i do try to improve my health. am very proactive. i eat well and exercise daily. respect my sleep and down time and take the meds that the drs. proscribe. but i know my personality has changed dramatically with fibromyalgia and i’m sad about that.

I’ve noticed that the stronger mentally of us (fibromites) have that narcissism, and that those of us who also suffer from mental disorders on top of FM have it somewhat, but then there are others still who try too much to help their loved ones and suffer extremely for it.

I am a fibro patient who is not sure what to think about this article. Yesterday around 5 pm or so I called my husband and asked him that when he got home from work could be please order dinner, make sure our daughter did homework etc because I needed some bed time. The last two months have taken a toll on me becuase I have lowered my pain management meds significantly. I do this from time to time knowing that my body and brain will ask for more and I do not want or wish to get to the highest dose. So I fool my body by lowering and then going on my correct dose after a few months. I was desperately trying to focus on myself but instead I spent two hours helping my daughter which including making sure she did her ballet exercises. I was so focused on her that accidentally ran over my own toe with the chair I was sitting on as I rushed to her aide when I saw she lost her balance. My toe is swollen and I know I will loose the nail. In another words I think lots of us want and need to focus on our self but have too much to do to be able to take care of us properly. Not sure how narcissism fits in my world. Yes, I do feel the pain everyday and my body makes me remember that I am sick and need extra T.L.C. but like many others end up giving our last strength to others at our own detrement. That is my two cents worth.

A couple of things:

1-I think it does need to be clear that what this article is talking about is the colloquial form of narcissism, not the psychological one (which is definitely nasty!)

2-If you read the doctor’s article, he talks about how he missed being able to connect to other people — he’s not trying to say that he or any of us are intentionally cutting people off, or that we don’t want to connect. He’s saying that anyone in severe pain can lose the ability to connect because the pain makes such constant demands on the brain. I know when my pain was at its worst, I was unable to remember things like birthdays, or when my parents were going on a trip, or when my husband was working an extra shift. It wasn’t a choice, it was a consequence of my brain (the actual physical structure of it) was too involved with pain to make room for those things.

When a doctor sees how wrapped up in our pain we can become, they often think we’re obsessing on “illness behaviors” and making ourselves worse by being so focused on it. That makes them dismiss us and our pain. If they understand that pain causes the behavior and not the other way around, maybe they can start actually treating us.

I think it does the opposite. I have noticed people who suffer in chronic pain are far more empathetic.

People who don’t suffer confuse being social and active with not being narcissistic. But what exactly causes intolerance and bigotry aimed at people who do suffer from chronic pain? Because we are a “drag” on their well-being?

Please.

If a person suffers the breaks in life, they are far more likely to receive sympathy and help from a person who does understand more fully the dimensions of human suffering.

People who live painless and self-indulging lives may be more social. But they certainly tend to be more narcissistic than us.

Go to any soup kitchen in the city, addiction support group, etc. In each case you will find people who have suffered in that way. You don’t see the people who drive around the suburbs in their SUVs and go to clubs every weekend.

Adrienne, I think the doctor is confusing in his use of “empathy.” As some have noted here, the chronic pain patient may actually have greater empathy with human suffering. So when the doctor says “My ability to relate has suffered” and notes that chronic patients need something (such as meditation or therapy) to “enhance” their empathy, I demur. When he notes that chronic pain can interfere with social connections, yes, of course. Let me also say that the pain he is experiencing is probably more intense, more distracting than my day-to-day pain. I appreciate his understanding that we must also deal with the element of not seeing an end.

Guide Response: This is a very good point — I think his comment applies to those times when pain is most severe. We definitely do have a lot of empathy for people when we’re not in severe pain, but then when it’s that searing, intense, all-encompassing pain I agree with him that we do lose the ability to see beyond the bars of the pain cage. So we have 2 sides of a coin — we may go from one extreme to the other in terms of our ability to relate to others and express our empathy. ~Adrienne

I think labeling a pain response as a psycological term greatly disconnects what the patient feels to what the doctors sees.

To see it as a pain response, a response anyone would have, to see as it fits into the flight or fight models should be used as a tool to understand it as a response to pain otherwise the pain is forgotten.

to say that one is preoccupied is like taking someone who just got hit with a car and saying they are narcisistic for not showing concern for the driver who is in shock. Is in itself a narcisistic distortion of the greater reality that is happening.

As a relationship coach who deals with victims of Narcissists and someone who’s had fibro for 15 years – NO – chronic pain does NOT turn you into a Narcissist.

You must make the distinction between healthy Narcissism (caring about yourself) with NPD (which is destructive)

Chronic Pain can cause depression, even PTSD – but NPD? No way. And it’s cruel to even think we chronic pain sufferers are!

I just read the whole article and I do not think he is saying anything bad about us….just the opposite.
He recognizes that people with chronic pain “do not have a light at the end of the tunnel” and doctors do get frustrated because they don’t know what to do with us. Another thing I liked is he mentioned that when he was first diagnosed with cancer, he received flowers, get well cards etc. FIBROMITES and Chronic Pain sufferes get nothing. At least I never have.
I always say “where are the casseroles?”.

I have had fibro and chronic pain since 1989, after I was in two car accidents, the first one, I was a pedestrian and the second I was rear ended by a drunk driver, while I was stopped at a red light.
Thinking back, I did become somewhat “narcisstic” because my life as I had known it was crashing right before me and I felt helpless and became very depressed. My children were still young and I tried to be the mother they always knew but she was gone.

I spent 6 weeks in an inpatient chronic pain programme. I thought that I was going to be cured, instead I found out that this was a life sentence of pain. The reason it was an inpatient program was because the doctors felt that I needed time just for me and take me away from daily responsibilites.
Unfortunately, I did not have loving support from my husband and my 22 year marriage ended, when he found out that the pain was for life. I have to say that during that time, it was hard to feel anything and the saying “it could always be worse” had no meaning for me. I felt nothing but pain, physical and emotional. I did see a therapist and she always asked me about my friends. I did not understand why that was so important. Now, I understand.

A year after the pain programme, I was in the hospital again but this time it was in the psychiatric ward. I was there for 7 weeks and the time spent there changed my life. At first, I thought it was a mistake for me to be there and the doctors said I could leave but the more I thought about it, I realized that I did belong there. After the 7 weeks, I made a promise to myself that I would never end up there again. On the last day there, a man was admitted and I only saw him from the back and all of a sudden I felt that “it can always be worse”. I saw young people admitted and diagnosed with all sorts of illnesses that would keep them in and out of hospital for their whole lives.

I also tried a support group and found that did not help at all. I do deep breathing and that helps temporarily. I am sorry if I am rambling and going off topic. I do want to say one more thing about being narcistic. I was having a few people over a few nights ago to watch the olympic hockey game. I had to go get some groceries when a few already arrived. When I got back, my body was throbbing and all I wanted to do was flop on the couch. But the ouch was taken by friends and I thought I was going to explode. I was swearing to myself “get off my couch..it’s mine and for me”. Also they were yelling because of the game. I quuickly took my meds, spent a few minutes in my bedroom to calm down.
I did not want to take out my pain on my few friends that I have left. Years ago, I may have behaved like a child and have a fit but I have learned that it is the pain talking and not me.

And yes, they gave me the couch so I could lie down.
Sometimes, FM is not so invisible.

I am sort of a triple threat in the narcisccism department. I’m bipolar, I’ve had fibromylgia for over 20 years and I was just diagnosed with cancer last year. I live alone and have no one to talk to about any of this and my regular doctor just tends to throw pain pills at me, so she doesn’t has to deal with my fibro. I also had a therapist who called me a narcassist with my bipolar diagnosis. He would just call me that to my face. why? Yor guess is as good as mine. Since getting diagnosed with cancer, you know what? I very rarely tell anyone I have it. I don’t want pity and in a way I’m shooting myself in the foot because I really don’t have any support. So how much talking about your diagnosis is too much? I don’t really know. I really only talk to my mother about it. I always felt that the comments by the therapist were just plain hurtful. You’re in therapy…of course its all about you for that half hour session. In the meantime, I’m really sad. I suffer from depression too. But I’ve stop therapy. I just take pills for mental pain and physical pain and I don’t talk about myself to anyone anymore.

I believe the doctor who wrote this was trying to be helpful, but if the article is not read carefully, it is easy to misinterpret what he is saying. In my opinion, it is very unfortunate that he did not make his point clearer to the general reader.

In this excerpt, you can get a glimpse of what he was trying to say:

“We usually think of the narcissist as one who is so in love with themselves that they can’t see, connect or experience others. Isn’t the pain patient a narcissist of sorts? Their acute attention to internal noise is a form of narcissism, taking them away from relationships with others and decreasing their ability to see outside of themselves. They are not occupied with their ‘positive attributes.’ They are occupied with pain and the inner world that this creates.”

The last two sentences show that he understands that chronic pain sufferers are not real narcissists, because they are not in love with or occupied with their ‘positive attributes’, but instead they are occupied with their pain. He draws the narcissism parallel in order to lead doctors to the next logical step – to treat the chronic pain patient with some of the tools used to treat narcissistic patients, in the hope that these tools – group support, psychotherapy, and meditation – will provide some relief to those with chronic pain, through increasing their ability to reconnect with others, maintain relationships, and have the good feelings that we experience when we can empathize and comfort others.

Too bad there wasn’t a better word for the preoccupation caused by chronic pain. Sufferers don’t need to have any more negative labels attached to them, even if it is within the context of trying to help them.

For a site this size this has to be the most uninformed resource on the web,. All I see is drugs being pushed on to Fibro sufferers, of which I was once a former sufferer. I did a cleanse which got to the heart of the matter. Maybe you are just toxic and don’t need more toxins from big pharma.

Guide Response: Who is pushing drugs on fibro sufferers? I regularly talk about how I DON’T take any fibro drugs and I provide information on supplements, nutrition, lifestyle changes, and CAM treatments on top of offering information on medications — including side effects and risks. We all need a different combination of treatments in order to approve, and for some people that includes drugs. We each have the right to see ALL of the available information so we can make treatment decisions. If you look around here at all, you’ll see a lot more than just drug information, and if you look at the drug information, you’ll see both the negative and positive information about them. ~Adrienne

I think that the Dr.’s term, “situational narcissist” is a cross between psychological and the poetic. But chronic pain is only poetic if you find suffering poetic.

I would liken chronic pain to having cancer, but without the sympathy from others and an incurable cancer yet non-life-threatening disease. It’s constant, it intrudes, you have to change almost everything. Spouses may leave you.

What I find, as a former practicing RN, to be typical, is the high plateau from which some doctors sit and pronounce upon the others of the human race. I find that in this article, just a little.

Ah yes, I am have been accused of being ‘comsumed’ by what my body is doing. But you try it day after day for years or even just months and see how far you get! We tend to isolate ourselves, I like to be alone so I can groan and moan without bothering anyone, and alone I don’t have to use energy conversing, listening, holding in my tummy, all everyday things that no one thinks about, but when your energy is extremely limited you are very concious of. And yes, my body chatters at me continually, as well as my brain, and I listen, what else can I do? I have to be aware what is going on. So call me a situational narcisist, I just want to be left alone!

Michael, I am glad that you are feeling better but people are often misdiagnosed with fibromyalgia. Perhaps, you are one of those fortunate ones.
I have done many cleanses and have tried many alternative treatments to drugs. THEY DON’T WORK BECAUSE THERE IS NO CURE FOR FM. There are many things out there that may give us temporary relief but that’s it.
If you really did get cured, then you have no right to come in here and insult all of us who struggle everyday, just to get through the day.
Perhaps any compassion you may have had came out with your cleansing.

Suzan, you nailed it in terms of what I also find offensive in the doctor’s tone: making pronouncements about others from a “high plateau.”

ALL WE NEED IS HELP.

Dr. L is just trying to make sense of what is happening to him, just like I’m trying to make sense of what is happening to me. Chronic medical conditions that cause pain, like my fibromyalgia, do make us reflect on ourselves quite a bit, like Narcissus. I do find beauty in this reflection – I appreciate the slower pace and the power to say “no” in a way I’ve never learned before. Now if I could only sleep…

I do isolate, I get to church on sundays n get my child to bible study n pray I/we can make it to events, bdays etc for her , but for me/ my life I do very little,its too hard, it takes extraa pain meds n so I have to really measure what is worth all that it takes to go and do something for myself, a lunch etc. I volunteered all my life and I no longer due, due to the pain I am in, I am on disability and so I’m in bed all day intill my child gets home then I take my meds n go from there.. If anyone thinks I would’nt rather be working at the carreer I loved, let alone the $$ it brought in thier crazy, n to say I’d rather b in bed then lunching w/friends, shopping etc is crazier! but I have no energy for ant of it, dating is soooo far from my mind,I’ll b alone 4 ever! I however due notice that when my 24 yrold daughter complains of being tierd from working so she has to lay in bed all day n not help me with a thing I get a bit irrate because she has NO idea what it take s for me to do her dishes, n pick up after her, and she doesnt even live here! so yes certain people I have no sympathy for, the actually healthy fit humans whom complain, but I care deeply about this world we live in and give $$ to wonderful charities I can no longer support Physically which is what I miws most! Friendships have always been hard for me I’ve had these symptoms 23 yrs and although I have wonderfully sweet friends after so many “I cannt make it” I’m lucky they understand, but I am the one whom misses the weddings, vacays, lunches n such, it is my life that suffers.. so kow I’m not a thoughless rat, I’m beaten down daily while struggling just to keep meals on the table for the only thing that keeps a smile on my face, this sweet 5yr old that I try not to let see how much pain I’m in, and not to let this all effect her life too much. god bless

I used to be out going but when the pains were 24/7 i decided to be indoors. i started to limp and walk like an old person. The pains were too much for me to the extend that i had to stop things i like. This journey is not easy especialy to people who don’t know about FB.

I really thank you for all the experience that you share guys. I used to say i was the only one who is in thi situation. How can a pain be in your body every time and day.

the problen i have with this condition is that you don’t look sick only you who knows the differnt each day. sometimes i just wish not do a thing or talk in some days i feel all over the moon and want people to be the same to me.

I don’t think you can compare all pain patients together…I think Cancer patients are different than patients with CFS and Fibromyalgia. Cancer patients are going thru radiation therapy and chemotherapy which most often make them very sick..nauseated..weak.vomiting and feel like sometimes they wish they were dead and often increases their pain. I have been a CFS..Fibro patient since I was 28 and I’m now 55..I have multiple other problems had 6 blood clots..losing vision etc..I was finally forced to give up nursing after 30 years…But this is just a part of my life and I live with it and really don’t discuss it very much because people REALLY DON”T want to hear it…I feel fortunate that my disease is not fatal or contagious..

I have to say that I didn’t have to read much at all to see that this person apparently isn’t feeling much pain…maybe when he wrote it that is, but he might feel some,but again I just don’t see anything in his post @ real pain…how it feels,how it takes everything you got to make it thru a day or how it feels just to lay in bed and hear everyone else having fun..laughing. I might say I am okay just to make someone think that I am, but inside I might really feel like OMG when is this ever going to end..I am sorry, but I just didn’t see the empathy he was talking @. He said he was OK..uhh..I am not OK and I know that. I wish I could even say that.
It is hard to be in pain. I can vouch 4 that. I am in misery most of the time and if not that I am ahing..so I just didn’t feel sincerity or a sense of truthfulness @ this mans testimony.
I have a place where u can vent. It is new and I have to say I would really love to see some comments on what I have said. If it helps in any way. As I said, it is new and I am not even comp. lit.,but I feel it flows. I would love critiques @ how to do it better. Come on by and see me..it is very interesting if I don’t say so myself. OHH come on,hope 2 C U there..:))))
http://skeet65.blogspot.com/
As I say, If I can touch just someones life with my life…that would be great!!! Oh..I did work in Nashville,TN with some big name people..come by and u can see just who it is..u might be surprized to who u might find..

Are you serious??? You need psychological help- to stop beating up on people who are in pain. This is the most ridiculous article I have read about chronic pain. It is like kicking someone while they are in pain thinking it will cure them and teach them a lesson not to get sick. Ughh I hate garbage articles like this. Get some therapy and grow a heart and compassion!!

Thank you for this article.

I’ve lived with my girlfriend for 5 years. I started thinking something was mentally wrong with her. She is constantly irritaded with me and is quick to anger. She has been hostile at time and has to always be right even when it is clear as day that she has done something wrong or insensitive. I started looking up mental disorders that fit he behavior and a lot of them apply. I read on narcissisism and it fits her like a glove. She has been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. There is no talking to her its like she has no empathy for the things she says or does but only for herself. She is never wrong. She only seems to get angry when i try to communicate with her. My only choice is to leave for my own well being.

For those who think this article is wrong or bashing sick people.

This article is intended to help the people who are not sick in a relationship with someone who has fibromyalgia that cuases these other mental disorders. Narcissists are horrible people and if a disease cuases someone like symptoms of narcissisism then that leaves the person who is not ill in bad shape. It helps people realize they are not crazy and why thier spouse is acting like an insensitve jerk no matter what you do to try and help.