Have you noticed that math is a lot harder, or that you have more trouble keeping track of time since you developed fibromyalgia (FMS) and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS or ME/CFS)? I know I have, and I've heard the same thing from a lot of people.
Many months ago, in my forum, someone mentioned dyscalculia -- a learning disability that deals with math. It's similar to dysphasia, which includes those word-finding difficulties so many of us have, so it made sense to me that we could also have dyscalculia. I didn't research it until now, and when I looked at a symptoms list I had a real "a-ha!" moment.
Dyscalculia not only impairs math and number abilities (forgetting concepts, transposing numbers), it also involves:
- Difficulties with time: inability to remember schedules, keep track of time, or remember a sequence of events.
- Spacial problems: impaired direction sense and memory of how things are laid out, leading to frequently getting lost or becoming disoriented.
- Difficulty sight-reading music or learning instrument fingerings.
- Bad memory for names.
When I read those things, a light went on. It's incredibly common for us to get lost, or forget how to get where we're going. Who among us hasn't lost their car in a parking lot? I used to have a pretty good ability to sight-read and learn new music, but now I really struggle with it.
As a TV news producer, I was responsible for timing my newscast, and adjusting content on the fly to make up for being too long or too short. Now, I've lost the ability to do the mental math necessary for that, and I also have trouble gauging the flow of time. Things are constantly creeping up on me. I remember getting frustrated with my husband for "nagging" me about doing laundry, when I'd done several loads "a few days ago." When I did a load for him, I counted 17 shirts. 17. It had been 2.5 weeks since I'd done laundry, and I'd have sworn it was maybe five days.
Research shows that dyscalculia involves dysfunction in a specific part of the brain -- all of those problems come from the same cause. To me, this is huge because now I know that many of my dysfunctions have the same root cause; they're ONE problem instead of SIX unrelated ones. I've been doing cognitive training to recover my mental abilities, and this knowledge gives me a much simpler plan of attack for improving my math, time sense, direction sense, musical ability, name recall, etc. -- if I can improve one of these areas, it should spill over into the other, because it all comes from one part of the brain.
Dyscalculia isn't something you can take a pill for, it's something you have to live with. The good news is that it is a recognized learning disability, just like dyslexia or dysphasia. If it causes problems for you at work/school, you can talk to your boss/teacher about having this learning disability without having to disclose that you have FMS or ME/CFS, or trying to explain brain fog. Learning disabilities are covered under the Americans With Disabilities Act, so if you can actually be diagnosed with dyscalculia you can request reasonable accommodation.
The term dyscalculia doesn't get a lot of use even in schools, so it might be easier to say you have a "learning disability in applied math."
Does dyscalculia seem to fit you? Have you found ways to improve these skills? How have these problems impacted your life? Leave your comment below!
Dyscalculia Resources
- Dyscalculia Symptoms (site is under construction & not fully functional, but it's the best symptom list I found)
- Dyscalculia Basics
- Cognitive Training Changes the Brain
Learn more or join the conversation!
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I definitely have a problem with dates and times, but there are ways around that, such as the Organiser on my Nokia mobile phone.
What really humiliates me is that I can’t make sense of money any more. I know what each coin is, but can’t work out what it means in relation to other coins. I just stare stupidly at the money and can’t make sense of it. I only shop at a few selected shops where the staff are aware of the problem and offer help.
I am so glad to hear that I’m not losing my mind! I blamed it on age (I’m only 42!) Diagnosed with fibro nearly 25 years ago, it’s remarkable how many parts of my life it’s affected. My biggest loss is in spatial relationships. Strangely enough, I noticed it more when I started the Nintendo DS puzzler Professor Layton and The Diabolical Box. Several spatial puzzles and math word problems. Couldn’t believe how much trouble I was having.
A quick and easy test for math-related cognitive impairment is to try to count backwards from 100 by 7s.
This is a common part of standard neuro-psych testing. It requires multiple calculations in a precise order for each “step”.
This isn’t so much a learning disability as a processing problem, and is related to the common short-term memory problems that happen with severe CFS/ME.
And no, it’s not something “you have to learn to live with”. It gets much better with effective immune system and anti-viral treatment.
Interesting article and I’m glad to see awareness being raised for the issue of dyscalculia. I work as a tutor and many parents are rightly aware of issues like dyslexia and dyspraxia but very few have even heard of dyscalculia. I would recommend looking at these brief talks on the subject. They’re by a lady named Jane Emerson who is one of the UK’s experts on dyscalculia:
What is Dyscalculia?
Dyscalculia Symptoms
Dyscalculia Help
I have CFS. I haven’t noticed a problem with calculations, but a big one with orientation: I used to be very good at looking at road maps and getting right away to ANY place even during the night…but now it’s very very difficult, I get lost in places and lost with time…forget what day it is, what I have to do next day…of course, I write everything down, but the change is amazing!
thanks for the interesting info you always give on this blog
roberta
Yes! Yes! Yes!!! Every symptom you note I have and have always had, altho in lesser degrees than now, and I never related them. Talk about aha moments! I’ve managed to work around the unidentified and even unrecognized single problem, but all of the issues are progressing now I’m in my 60s. And I’m thrilled that if I can better one they may all improve. Adrienne, you’ve done it again. Many thanks for your intellectual digging. (That Cottey College nurtured curiosity pays off!)
Guide Response: Hail, Cottey C!
I can give you examples of each of those issues from my life.
Sense of time: At work, I really can’t remember if I saw someone come in the office YESTERDAY or if that was earlier today. If someone asks how long ago I talked with someone, I often feel like I’m lying when I give them an answer. I can’t not answer. I can’t keep saying, “I don’t know — I don’t remember.”
Spatial problems – I was laughing the other day, thinking how I miss those side-scrolling video games. I have no hope with the video games where you’re not given a clear sense of “where to go.” I got lost in my hometown of 17 years… can’t think of how to get there from here. I don’t drive, but it’s probably a blessing. Strangely, I can’t remember surroundings or what a building I want to go to LOOKS like very clearly. I don’t have memory for those types of things. I certainly can’t give directions.
Difficulty Sight-reading music: I used to play the piano. Now, I could read the notes. It wasn’t particularly EASY for me — after many years of lessons, I wasn’t an impressive player. I often became moody and didn’t WANT to read music — I wanted to improvise. My piano teacher didn’t encourage this — told me to give that up and play my lessons. Eventually, I told her that I was playing by ear. I explained, “You always play a piece first, and then I play it the way YOU played it.” What I meant was, I didn’t count out the beats… I imitated. If I hadn’t heard a piece before, I wouldn’t play it. I couldn’t figure it out.
Bad memory for names – Very embarrassing as I’m a receptionist. I’ve carried on entire conversations, hoping I didn’t get caught. The people at work I think have seen this — and they’ll come up and give me a list of their appointments for the day. It really saves me some embarrassment.
Yeah, this hits home for me… These are strange problems that are hard to explain to anyone. I think I’ve had this since a child — even though I’m not sure I had fibro until I was in my 20’s. Strange, isn’t it? My father reminds me of the game he invented to teach me about coins — “penny, nickel, dynamite” — I have no idea what he’s talking about but I struggled with math for that long.
I had a math teacher who put a cardboard box around all the sides of my desk, moved me to the front of the classroom and wouldn’t allow me to turn around to see the chalkboard. She said that I needed “to focus.” Now, was I restless in class because I had this problem all my life… or was I bad in math because I was forced to miss what was happening in class? I think it’s probably a little of both. I got A’s and B’s in everything — but struggled and got C’s in math no matter how hard I tried. My SAT scores show the difference in my verbal and math skills clearly. I can’t remember them exactly, but I had a near perfect verbal — and ended up with a total 1140 on the old scale. My math skills were about 200 points lower than my verbal I think…
I worked as a statistician until I came down with ME over 3 years ago… now when I go into the bank the teller has to recount my deposit because I can’t add up the checks right – even using a calculator! Names are hopeless, and short term memory has long gone…though I can still remember stuff from long ago, the further before I got ME the better the recall seems to be. This brain thing is more than dyscalcia since it has also affected my words – use the wrong ones, reverse or jumble spellings, lose them completely…on the plus side – I can watch the same thing over and over on the TV! And teh people who love me just take it in their stride so that is the most important thing…
I forgot to put the sense of time thing is perhaps the hardest to get people to accomodate to, especially when paired with the short term memory problems.. I did what when? Really?
I can truly relate to all of these memory and thinking problems. I was once the person everyone would come to when something needed to be recalled. They always said, “Ask Cheryl she will remember.” Now I can’t remember if I ate breakfast, much less what I had. I get lost going places I have been multiple times. I will have sudden bouts of severe disorientation involving not knowing how I got from one point to another or where I am. I was never great in math, but now I have even more trouble. Forget balancing a checkbook!! I used to be so organized. now my life is a disorganized mess. I still work full time and I focus all my limited brain power and energy into doing my job. I have very little left for my personal life and or business. I used to be able to remember faces, though I have always been bad with names. Now, I cannot even remember faces if I have not seen them recently. I spend a good part of my life trying to cover up all of these things so I do not appear stupid. Sometimes I want to just break down and cry because I can’t remember things and I feel so stupid. I have a very high stress job with people counting on me to help them and I use a lot of brain power doing this job. I also do brain games/exercises, when I am not too exhausted and brain dead. I used to be an avid reader, often reading an entire book in one night. Now when I try to read I fall asleep or have to read the same paragraphs several times in order to know what I have read. I used to always be on time (usually early). Now I forget appointment, even when I go by my daily calender. Bills are always paid at the last minute, most often late. I have had things cut off because I forgot to pay them even though I have carried the bill around for days trying to remember to pay them. Then there is the whole fibro fog thing. I desperately want to keep working. I love what I do. But I have to wonder every day if I can make another 8 years (to 65). I desperately want to make it to full retirement age, rather than have to go on disability and be locked into a much smaller payment amount. I am not sure what to do. I cannot afford to hire a “keeper.”
I’ve had problems with math my whole life, but it wasn’t until I was about to start grad school that I got the formal testing and was diagnosed with dyscalculia. I’d changed majors in college out of the scientific field where I so badly wanted to be because I couldn’t do the calculus even a little bit. I’ve also always had problems with directions, names, time, money sense, etc. All of this became much worse when I developed FM, though I wasn’t diagnosed with it until some 7 years or so later. I do cognitive exercises to try and improve my ability to remember names and directions, and use a timer and calendar/planner to help with the time issue. My husband (a math whiz) helps with budgeting and helped me through my required grad-level math-related courses (statistics was a nightmare but I made it through!). It’s important to realize that the diagnosis of dyscalculia my vary from state to state and how they determine what is/is not a learning disability. When I was diagnosed with it in MN, it was a statistically significant difference between actual performance and expected performance based on achievement in the other areas of the test. That definition may vary from state to state. But I’ve found having the diagnosis to be very helpful in explaining some of my challenges to employers and other people. It doesn’t carry the same misunderstandings per se that saying one has FM does, and it’s good when I don’t want to disclose the FM but still need to seek accommodations.
Interesting article. I think it’s important to point out that the “brain fog” or cognitive dysfunction that PWC have varies from person to person. My 16-yr old son has had severe CFS for 5 years & even at his worst, has never had problems with math or calculations (& just got an 800 on the math SAT). But he has suffered from dysphagia & word blockage & impaired short term memory. I describe the “forgetfulness” as beyond forgetting where your keys are, but forgetting what they’re for. (and tell your husband I said he should be doing his own laundry!).
Guide Response: LOL – he’s actually great about doing his own laundry, but he’d frustrated me over some laundry issues & I’d actually forbidden him to! I’ve since realized that was not my brightest decision ever. ~Adrienne
This is scarry, some of you are 60 and are having these syntomps, I’m only 28 and I sometimes can’t remember what I did yesterday, where I parked my car etc. I never been good a math, now I know why. I have dyslexia, never been dignosed with it but I know I do. A lot of times I think I’ve been blaming the syntomes on english beeing my second lanugage, not speaking or using german words enough, but maybe not. My husband always says to me, you don’t listen to me, or can’t you remember. It’s not that I don’t listen, when I get the fibro fog, hearing the words coming out of other peoples mouths are difficult, paying attention to someone past 3 min. becomes hard. Sometimes I feel like my brain is so lik a harddrive with very min. storage, so things that seam “unimportant” get deleted off. Why should I remember how it did the task, it good done. I feel much like cheryl, I can’t keep up with bills, even though I write them down, have the bill & know they need to be paid. We got our electricity turned off ones, because I thought I had paid but I didn’t. I’m the one people come to when they need help and paying the bills, keeping up with cleaning the house, washing laundry have become difficult and I forget doing them. My husband is in the military and often gone, so I can’t depend on him reminding me or helping me out, I never had to until I was dignosed with FM. I would like to know how I can get tested for dyscalculia, I would like to start college and know before hand, to be able to pick the right degree for me.
Omg…I have had problems ever since the 1st Grade with math. I just could nit Do it. I couldn’t tell time until the fourth grade..I had to take a GGED in math by my sphomore year in High School(with the help of a tutor) so that I coould Graduate! I was told in 1977 that I was dyslexic (always put in the remedial reading class as well.) when I came back to NYC from VA after graduating from high school, I kept losing my sense of direction and walking the wrong way..I know this city like the back of my hand but I kept getting lost! When I was formally diagnosed in ‘02 with FM/CFIDS due to an accute onset that paralyzed my whole right side, all these things came into question but I had never heard the term Dyscalculia until now. This explains Volumes throughout my life..THANK TOU Adrienne!!!
I diagnosed myself with dyscalculia when I was in teacher training. What a relief to finally understand a 60%ile difference between my math concepts and math calculations California Test scores in grade school! (But, I’m also a victim of “New Math”, so, who knows?)
I am surprised to learn that remembering names comes with this LD: this has been frightfully embarrassing since I have to learn and use over 120 new student names every year. My colleagues have caught on and help me in official school functions, but when faced with a student or one of my over 1700 former students in the grocery store – yikes! Some of my colleagues not only remember students’ names, but their parents’ names, and how they are related to everyone else in town.
And finally, we have a saying in my household – “No, Judy: Your other right.” It helps relieve the tension.
OMGosh!!! another problem that’s been brought to light!!…impaired language, difficulty looking for words, memory loss( short and long term)..as well as difficulty judging time spans is really really frustrating for me…being that I work in the public, I can’t find myself a loss for words. There are alot of times i stand there and just say ‘Ahhh’ or ‘Ummm’ until i get myself so frustrated i can feel the tears coming on!…i am an educated and intelligent woman and i’m finding this part of Fibro more frustrating and sometimes more difficult to deal with then the pain or the tiredness…most of the other symptomes i can control with meds or ice or heat or sleep ect…but other than the cognitive training is there anything else that helps?
This makes perfect sense! I’ve had dyscalcula for absolute years! My math skills are horrible and if you put alphabets with my numbers, I totally get lost. I took College Algebra 4 times trying to get a good enough score to not have to take it again. It took me four hours to do the final and my teacher took pity on me, took my perfect attendance into account and I got the 70 and got told to never try to go into another math class. Sounded good to me!!!
I have no head for money so my husband made 2 accounts for us. He handles the main account where the bills get paid and such. I have an account that he controls how much is in it. It has saved us a lot of problems because he will tell me how much we have and I try to keep it to that.
But one thing that this article made me realize is that the three times I have tried to take a foreign language for my bachelors degree, I have failed because I could not make the words “stick” in my head. So I have given up on the degree (so close, 2 history classes to go , my major, and 1 english to go, my minor. And then the 2 semesters of 2000 level foreign language).
Interesting thought.
well i have a case of mild dyslexia. Discalculia is mostly included as one of the symptoms of dyslexia. although i have problems with maths formulae and problems related to it, my memory considering names and faces is very well and also i remember directions very well. I dont have any other symptoms mentioned above. I am good with puzzles though am slow in writing and percieving.
by the way i am still 17 and was diagnosed with dyslexia 2 years ago.
OH MY GOD, I think I have Dsycalucia, I always think because I am 40 that is why I can’t remember things. But look back to my childhood I always have problems with Math, Chemistry and Geography.
1. I can’t go to the college because all my scores from that 3 classes are terrible.
2. Mom bought me a keyboard when I was 17, and send me to a class learn how to paly. I had to quit because I can’t read the notes and use 2 hands play the same time.
3. One day the cop block the high way exit (the one I get off from work to go home) after the Hurricane. I freaked out because I don’t know how to get back home from a different way. The cop yelled at me ” Mam, you need to learn how to go home in a different way. ” So I had to call my husband let him direct me on the phone to drive home from the next exit.
4. I also work at the front desk, I can’t remember the guest face or their names. It is like when I had to check back with the manager about the issues they had all the sudden I can’t recall their names and faces.
5. When I am at the intersection I usually so confused should I turn right or left, and most of the time I made the wrong turn and get lost.
6. When I am at the department store, I do not like to look at those lay out, I prefer to ask the information desk in person. Because I can’t read the map.
8. I love watch movies, but after couple months I can’t remember what’s the story or who is the actor, unless I re watch it again.
9. When have a multiple doctor appointments, I have to write down specific what is for, if not I get confused which is which. I had to call the doctor office to reconfirm it.
10. When I am doing shopping I only can add 2 or 3 items in my mind, more than that I can’t do it. I have to either write down the price or use the Calculator.
Ok, that is how I live with my life, I saw so many videos the talk about how it affect the child but not much more about adult life. I tried to call my Psychiatrist here in Dubai, but the receptionist sounds like she never heard this Dsycalucia before. I really hope they have the knowledge about this and get me some help. I was so worried I had Alzheimer’s so early before I saw this Article. So thank you, thank you so much.
7. Very poor ability to “visualize or picture” the location of the geographical locations of states, countries, oceans, streets. Since I am from China a lot my American have been there will tell me things about China, when they ask me a city if located at the place they think it is , my answer in my mind will be OH My God, I don’t know. That is a terrible feeling and I am so afraid when they ask me this kind of questions